on booktv.org easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. booktv streams live online for 48 hours every week and with top nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. now on booktv, on she meant talks about the follow up for best selling memoir. she discusses what her life has been like since moving to the united states from china in 1984. does for other programs from the recent "chicago tribune" printer's row lit fest. >> thank you for this great turnout. i'm really excited to be here today with anchee min. i read her first book, read israeli, back in 1995 think sure that it came out and i soon some of you have read it. it was the first installment of her memoir about growing up during the cultural revolution in china.

and it took her up until approximately the time that she landed -- can you not jimmy? can somebody regulate this micro for us, please? how about this, can you hear me now? excellent. her second book, to the book will focus on today, "the cooked seed" which has just come out and it starts when she lands at o'hare in 1984, is that right? before i stressing question, just in case you think that success has changed anchee min, i would like to point out that she is traveling with a backpack. [laughter] she is just lugging everything just around them and asked a woman that down in the green room earlier today, i said is that everything you have? she suggested she said we learned growing up in china to back quickly. and to pack everything that we

have. have. >> because we're told that the americans were in the non, they're going to take over china, nk china. we must learn to defend ourselves. anytime. >> so some things never change, however american as you may be. anchee, i want you to start by just telling us in a way that your book starts about your arrival in chicago. who were you? what was that like to land in this cold, strange place? >> my life indeed in china. it's a long story. to make it short, i was in the labor camp. it's nothing unusual, if you know anything about chinese history, modern history, cultural revolution, mao used the red guard up and get rid of his political rival. when that was done, the youth

was getting settled in the city and mao needed to get rid of them. so he said the university, the best one is in the countryside. you go and study from peasant to the half of the china youth wasn't there, ordered there, and i was one of them. and after a few years in the labor camp, hitting disillusioned and my labor camp in the east china sea, 10 labor cams there. about 100,000 youth, age 17-25, and that makes the book, read isaiah, how we are contained one slogan, to kill -- -- that's how we were kept in a lot. and to speed up the red as daily, now come to this point was in late 1975, early 1976, we did not know if mao was dying

and madame mao was preparing herself to be the next room of china. and she needs to make soda like a campaign movie to pave the way commission needs to face, face, her ideal woman to be on the screen. and she looked everywhere, and i was picked from the cotton fields and shipped with doctor and truck back to film studio to the screen tested. i personally had no say in it. it's all because i was, like everybody else in china, it's just because i had the correct, the right face that madame mao needed. disappointing isn't it? [laughter] spin and you don't like hearing the term that you were recruited, correct? >> correct.

>> what's your objection to the word recruited? it's in your book, right? >> i had no talent and i saw all these beautiful women of my own age, and some of them know how to act and they were eliminated. because somebody who knows acting had some cultural background in the family, so that's considered politically not reliable. and madame mao was looking for a piece of white paper. so i was taught how to perform. >> can you give us a little rendition? >> well, for example, teach me how to drink water correctly. i was given a cup and start drinking water, ready, set, action. and the director says stops the your little pinky. the correct way to drink water

is grabbed, gobble it down in one breath and wipe my mouth with both my sleeves can like what i did. but anyway, i was picked and i just remember, i couldn't perform. there's no way. old, all i could think was i didn't want to go back to labor camp because i had a back injury. and i must succeed and that kind of shows. and then later on the footing was sent to madame mao and it was, her office said it was awful, and we were called to beijing to watch madame mao's favorite movies and to learn techniques and to not be poisoned by its contents. and we had of a study section and we went through all that. and the moment we saw all these, the two movies in her private film room and we all got poisoned, mentally.

one was jane eyre. madame mao saw herself as jane eyre because mao was 20 years older and there was a mad woman in the back and mao's second wife was madwoman. and the second movie was the sound of music. [laughter] because madame mao, you have to take care of mao skits. >> they took the same films that influenced kids, that's what so amazing. >> she was a beautiful, was responsible for murdering so many chinese people. but in the meantime, her fantasy. anyway, september 9, 1976, mao died. madame mao was overthrown and two months later i was denounced. the next eight years i was

punished for guilty by association. and by the time i had no way out, i was, put it that way. if i remained in china i would be dead today. >> so at what point did you determine that you wanted, -- that you want to come to the united states? and nation you had grown up learning to hate and fear? >> i was coughing blood, and i've got shadows on my lungs, shadow some oliver, and passed out and i was ordered to work in tibet and i saw, like i was going, my life was ending. it was then my old friend, she was in china, she was told not to be my friend. and then she went to america. so we're best friends. she was going up to be a superstar in china.

i was going down the sewage. after she arrived in america, played in a movie called the last emperor on, and she saved enough to contact me. so she wrote a letter and i learned her life in america and thus can surprise she -- she said i was like every chinese student, and i, and in america you have to work for your tuition. saw light bulb went off, and i said, could i be one of his students? and i don't speak english, but i would be willing to work hard from labor camp. and she applied everywhere in the united states, help me, but nobody would accept me. and then she says, she says, do you have any talent? and i said, i grew up painting

murals, public murals. so at the time, lucky enough that there was an exhibition called french impressionist them. and the weather and i thought if i couldn't -- if i could copy negligible, i could copy and go. my mother said with my paintings, i applied to the school of the art institute of chicago and they thought i had potential. and then -- >> and he basically lied about your english, write? or misrepresented. >> well, i couldn't fill out the application form. and first, my name, and i didn't have english name. in the neighborhood, a wise man said you should name itself, give yourself an american name, angel. so i printed out angel come and many years later when my daughter was 11, i gave her application form as a gift.

i said don't ever forget what your momma come from, and i come, and my daughter look at the name, anchee, angel, she says. mom, that's not angel. that's angle. [laughter] spent at the next line with sex. >> and i consoled by chinese english dictionary. 1970 version. there is no explanation on sex site did not know how to fill out male or female. i did know which one to circle. and the rest, just impossible to go in so took it to a friend who helped me fill out the form, and by the line of english language skills, there was an option for, average, good, excellent. of course, excellent. [laughter] so with that i came to america come and i got stopped right at the customs. >> at o'hare? >> no. at the transition in seattle before coming to a lawyer.

for the deportation. >> lets the sort a little bit. so you get to chicago, you get to the school of the art institute, your english isn't good enough. you have to take english classes but eventually you begin to establish yourself. tell us about your early life in chicago, where you lived, what you had to struggle with. >> i live everywhere. i lived in somewhere downtown. first, when i was, for deportation, and i broke down, i told the translator that my feet are in america. and please, i beg you for chance. i will be dead in china. i didn't have the fortune to die in china. so she went back to the translator went back with the immigration officer and they discovered on my papers there was a clause upon the arrival of the student if english is not sufficient, i would be sent to a university of illinois, for

english intensive language for six months. and within six months i have a master english and make it back to the art institute that gave me the eye 20. if not, the school is responsible for reporting my situation for immigration and then from their deportation. i bet you master chinese and six must if you're in my shoes. [laughter] so anyway, i learned english by watching "sesame street" and by radio, public radio and newspaper. and it's just everything, and the most difficult thing i have to pretend all these years that i was doing well, making america, because i have burden to rescue my family in china. yesterday, i was passing the post, the downtown post office. i would member my first photo, and asked a stranger, i said can you take me -- take a picture of

me under the flight? why do you want to fly? we have a lot of beautiful buildings in chicago. i said once, for once i'm under the american flag. >> your life in chicago when you got it was fairly difficult. you had a lot of difficult jobs that didn't pay you very much. >> five jobs. but i have a different mindset. i thought i was given the right to life. it's up to me, for the first time. and so i lived, to answer your question, wicker park and then logan square, irving park, and so unfamiliar with the train because i had a job as a delivery person in downtown, walk everywhere. i knock on every chinese restaurant, the door in downtown chicago where my legs can carry me. and downtown south, outside of china town, like 26 and bridgeport. so my happiest place was 4311

south hosted. i had this little storage room, this was for the first time in my life my personal space. the ceiling was, the wall was not closed and the navy was a man but if you die every in the middle of the night, things come through. i had no window. i was happy. >> when you complain to the owner, he said that's why it's cheap. it's a storage space. >> i broke down. my health broke down. i passed out and i send to st. joseph hospital. the doctor told me give anybody to take either? i said no my. i can walk there. or take the train. he said no, you will collapse at any time. so he reported, hospital thinking i had some disease or something. so the moment he dropped me at the hospital and the two tall

men came and escort me in isolation room, and they put me in -- i was coughing blood and everything and they found there was nothing was wrong. it was just depression. so they sent me to the depression, just a psychiatrist at the school at the art institute, and i saw, i wouldn't go in moscow i figured it was a good opportunity to learn english. [laughter] and so it's a disappointment because the psychologist is not, she would not talk to me. she would not fix my english. [laughter] >> did chinese people at that point see psychiatrist? was the idea of psychiatry new to? >> right. i never heard of. and i thought how can a person be depressed when she's not feeling depressed? >> i mean, a lot of what you're talking about are events that you write about in this book. i was a two-thirds of the book all your life in chicago, before

you can all this success, before you move to california. when we were talking on the phone the other day, you talked about how difficult it was to write this second portion of her memoir, that you embark on it right after "red azalea" when you were a hot commodity and it didn't work. talk about the difficulties of telling this part of your life story. >> well, after 20 years of making it, living as an author and been on the bestseller list, and getting this it right next to j. k. rowling and british book award, i as author, i think i start to realize the asset of my life. i can make it as a book, it's just how i approach it. my now i know the right way to write this book, the book had to be written.

but the point is do i have the courage? so my daughter said mom, if you want to leave anything, i want you to leave me your story, but not a sugarcoated or airbrushed version. and that was the key. and i found a lot, i read a lot of immigrant stories told by second generations about their mothers, and i found a lot of things mothers left out. i know exactly why. so these are the things that i don't spend things mothers left out because they didn't want their children to know these things? >> the dark side. >> you talked a little bit about the dark side that you had to plunge into in order to tell the true story. >> for example, the lack of money and the loneliness. lack of money that drove me to live in the cheapest place in

chicago and put myself, subject myself to the vulnerable situation where i was raped. and the other day, i'm on book tour and is in san diego and there's a chinese woman guard up and crying, and said same thing happened to me, exactly, near image. i was raped and i did not report it. and i have felt the same thing, but people would not do a normal situation, when they're in despair, the question loneline loneliness. this helpless, helplessness and hopelessness just to people for madness. and the rape and the strangling, and the things that happened to immigrants. but on the other hand, i had problems with my siblings and my family. why do you have to reveal that to the world? >> did they say this to you

after the book at cannot and they knew you reveal that? >> i said i am going, i'm not going to sugarcoat. so i might say something that would have negative effect on my family, but i feel that i don't owe my life. as american i see that. i see that i said i owe that to america and i owe that to my daughter. if i tell -- >> tell an honest story? >> right. i love of america and chicago so much, and i think it's, that this is, it's the right thing to do. and also another thing was about this, talk about my christmas and thanksgiving. for three years i never, i didn't have the money, and mostly was afraid that i may not get a visa back if i ever visit my home. so i was here alone by myself. i could have, go to my friends

and be with the chinese community and i thought, but i will never learn english the way i do know. i must deny myself that part. so for my christmas, thanksgiving, i was alone, and then valentines night my gift to myself was this pornography taped. [laughter] so i have this relationship with the tape, for so many years. so that's part of -- it was by accident i stumbled into this, into this shop spent the same thing over and over, right speak was right. it's called, it's called sex education. [laughter] eventually, the store owner says, he says, look, why do you buy it? i will sell it to you for $25? you are the only one renting it

anyway. [laughter] so i bargained him down to $20 i thought this would be my companion for the rest of my life. >> does english come to you naturally no, or is it still difficult? >> still difficult. my daughter come up to my cabin and she would peak at, you know teenagers, she would look at, and in three weeks when she come back she would say, on the same sentence? same page? i would rather go to medical school. >> so you're talking about when you write, you write in chinese -- >> i compose in chinese, plot and details everywhere on my walls, notes, and the mirrors. my husband says, and some blankets, everywhere. i just dipped into an ocean of notes.

it's all in chinese. and when i write, execute it in english. >> one of the things you mentioned towards the end of the book is to be an immigrant is to leave the people you love behind. you left your family. your mother died. this happens late in your book, but it's still a very emotional thing, that your mother dies and she's so far away. >> gap. >> and what did that change for you? mentally. >> i think she became part of the driving force that i wrote this book. because i never realized that, that my relationship with my daughter, and until my mother passed away, i feel all these 10 years, 20 years as immigrant i couldn't, china is so far away. i was not able to attend her illness. and about, later on when i became wealthy enough to visit

her and she was already in her alzheimer's. and they couldn't even get there when she was dying. so my father just called one minute, i think every immigrant fear that midnight, early morning 4:00 call. you know something something's . and my father calling and saying in fake voice, your mother is in permanent sleep. and i said, god dammit, why can't you just say she's dead? so it's everything in permanent sleep. i think it's just something click and change me, and my relationship with my daughter, it's a difficult one because she, at the beginning she would not understand me. she was born in chicago. and a child of immigrant, new immigrants. she had to help. i mean, i wanted to take her to disneyland for her birthday, but i took her to home depot last

night her gift was a lesson how to use the power saws, and a book called plumbing one, two, three. and that was her life until she became a teenager and she broke down, rebuild. she said mom, i don't want to talk about this. i say, okay, i will talk to you about milking the system. because i know that making american dream was by hard-working is backfiring because my daughter often see the opposite. so she came to conclusion, mom, it's not the end of the world being poor, okay? and i just want, i see that to -- kids, they're having american dream that you come to america for. and her kids are happy. they have the own rooms, their tv, their games, their skating boards, their stuffed animals.

and i wanted what they have. i don't want to live this life working with you and no weekends, no summer. just carrying concrete bags in and out, helping you hold the drywall and the mixing cement when you do the tile, and working the switch. when i come home, even a bottle of shampoo cannot get rid of the stink in my hair. and i just, i don't think i'm asking too much. so she broke down crying, and that was my tough time, tough moment. >> you know, home depot figures fairly regularly in your book. >> we almost lived there. i live their. [laughter] >> and learning to repair things, take care of things, do just kind of basic work israel theme of the book. and then the conflict that you describe in your between the life that you lead, the skills

that you were forced to learn, and the life of their daughter, allies of the far more privileged children of most americans do. that continues to the conflict for you. some reviewer described as the original tiger mother. >> well, i used as my daughter, she will tell you, my husband, he is a tiger dad because -- >> a vietnam vet. >> u.s. marine from an english teacher for 30 years. and details my daughter, you tell your mother that she's immigrant. she has no idea what american school wants, and you can get away with it. you try me. [laughter] don't worry about me. i'm already there. [laughter] i think of that, he is the tiger father. for me, i think, my thinking,

okay, home depot is, she feels deprived. but in the meantime, subconsciously i feel this is what she needs. her friends, my daughter's friends moms calling me dysfunctional. and i think of calling them dysfunctional. in a way, i don't see anything wrong to prepare my -- i see her, if i'm ever a tiger mother, i'm tiger mother on one point. i will not let you get away with being a cystic and feeling sorry for yourself -- narcissistic. you have to help your mom pay back america. i would've been dead in china and would never get the opportunity. america give me the opportunity. i will give to you. you will never be, she's at stanford right now. she will never get that chance being nobody's daughter. and you have to pay back.

i can see her being helpful, like with her skills building house, and plumbing, and she can go surf, surf were people meter. so that was my dream. and sold it imposing, i said, i admit. >> you mention on the phone the other day, that you go back to china regularly, and you are worried that this generation of chinese kids is going in the direction of the privileged spoiled american your. >> i went to china, and my friends, their children's birthday, and whatever celebrations, the priority, the highest place is that donald's and kentucky fried chicken. that's where they celebrate. they don't want to go to chinese restaurant. it's everything america.

and now kids asking them for money to go to america. so right now, china spend a fortune, family fortune to send their kids to america for school. it's number one choice for family to invest in their children's education. >> there was a report that came out just this week about the increasing distrust between americans and chinese. that just in the past couple of years, that on both sides of that divide, evil are more mr. nussle. do you perceive that that americans are becoming more distrustful of chinese, and chinese are becoming more distrustful of americans? >> i'm not surprised. i look at my daughter's textbooks. china is not done. the china i know. and how crazy we are. china is our partner and our rival. and we may know point to get

your children about china. that doesn't make any sense to me. >> what do you think americans don't understand about china, and the chinese, that it's really important that we do understand? >> if you see, i think americans see china, to me, like a black and white. wind chime, 80% of china is gray. so that's what my book, that's where i go. i think a lot, china wants to make america understand china. but in the meantime, china is unwilling to reveal the dark side. and chinese people telling my family telling me to hide it. and the chinese people will not write the way i do, and i will not write the way i do if i'm not americanized. and i do see that, china presents itself with perfect

image, the image looks so fake. and that's american, i know that revealing your honesty, your flaws, it's not necessary. it's to your disadvantage. because americans understand that humans are flawed, and that's the great, you look at your scarlett o'hara in gone with the wind, the hero, heroine's. and i think that's part of the thing that the chinese don't understand about america. and they think america also don't understand the chinese. it's, by not being able to have access to chinese literature. chinese best selling literature never could make it to american mainstream market. not a one. >> why not? >> because china is, the authors, they are, i think the censorship. even in my memoir i think i automatically, how many times

you see in the memoirs of the -- protagonist, the self, the author projects themselves as flawed? so part of my chicago story is to show that. >> so are you saying that in chinese literature the protagonists would never be flawed? >> its automatic. flawed in the harmless way. because you don't examine yourself, dissect yourself, new autopsy on my mistake as honestly as america would do. for example, a lot of things i got scammed in chicago when i was a new immigrant. i was part of the fault. i was greedy. i need the money. so it's like a fly will never

park on an egg that is cracked and not stink. >> there is, through your whole life, through all the good work a striving, a constant striving to somehow be more, not exactly have more, not to be secure, striving towards a certain security. so now you live in beautiful northern california. you have a solid second marriage. your daughter is at stanford. what do you strive for now? >> how do you feel secure? because i'm deeply insecure with my writings. because i feel kind of. lack of talent, and i think everything i do, you see, my talent is in the knowledge that i lack of talent. so i achieve because i know the bars of their, and how hard i

want to jump. i want to get over that bar. i know if i make an effort i would be able to, but i'm not born with that talent. so i'm going back to chinese everyday i be chinese, a book a day, reading in chinese. and my best days writing english, i actually feel that i was writing in chinese. because you see, americans come in the main street book markets, i wanted to entertain but also wanted to walk away with solid knowledge about china because i feel like if china has been misrepresented and misread. and i think it's ridiculous for americans to get the wrong message about understanding about china. i know i've given the liberty that i can choose my stores to especially historical fiction. i'm entitled to do that, but i want to throw one more rock into

the well where china is already at the bottom, to mislead the american public further? i choose not to. is my book doesn't sell, doesn't read, give you the satisfaction totally, and i think it's my choice. my book, i had a struggle with madame mao. nobody wanted because the publisher for "red azalea," they did not think that american reading public would embrace the story, that story. that madame mao was on trial, sentenced to death. after 30 years of marriage, and she's considered a demon and mao was considered george washington of china. as a child, they convinced -- and density of a fatigue into few seconds where she was given basically were true of herself and she shouted in chinese. she said, -- [speaking chinese]

i thought that's a perfect self-portrait, translation, i am mao's doctor mao asked me to buy that. that was exactly a role. because after mao became emperor, new emperor of china and she became the backdoor concubine. she did everything that would please a man. so that was her life. and i felt it was a beautiful story. but, of course, in the end in 1991 she hanged herself in the jail. using socks. she tied all the socks together and there's nothing to hide, to tie, and she tied i bedframe and kind of rolled herself over. what kind of determination to die, to honor? i was wondering last minute, her thoughts. was it with a mao or with her own life, or what was it?

so the book is written and nobody wanted it. and then my current editor, he has the guts to take it because at the time -- making money with "lord of the rings." they thought they could invest in the literal work. took a chance on the and immediately it's a bestseller. because the paper, it is chinese history. and also my other books, i'm with bloomsbury who published harry potter. i think they took chance on me because they had money with harry potter. so my books are all like -- [inaudible]. i really appreciate the american critics, the quality of the people they sent to me. my first experience, i met --

madame mao, this journalist was sent to me, and the aspen conference question and he opened his mouth and he said i would like to discuss with you on the topic for a writer's pen name, the three villagers who instigated the cultural revolution. and i go, where did you go to school? he said columbia. i said what was your major? he said cultural revolution. >> we have like four minutes here, take a couple of questions from the audience. we have microphones right there in the middle of the aisle. >> it's a pleasure and hono an r to meet you. i'm a native of chicago. your story is very moving.

my first view into china was a famous fictional account, the good earth, by pearl buck. she presents the views of china and she was amazed how exotic it is going to she characterized the main protagonist, the labor and how harsh it was. did you ever read that? what was your reaction? >> i was brought to denounce pearl buck in 1972. it was right before nixon's visit, because we were children. i remember, i was welcoming nixon. i was given two red flowers to welcome president. when nixon's car passes, i was at the corner and i saw, first of all it can to the mine, do i shoot in? this man is so daring to come to china. it's because we want to, robotic, she was scheduled to come with nixon.

but last minute she was refused visa by mathematica, to china but before that they were organized to denounce or. i said i never know this and incomparable. what did she wrote? was given materials that she insulted the chinese peasants. so i was not able to get any book, just copy the as i remember, my denunciation of author for insulting chinese peasants. it wasn't until the "red azalea" book tour action in chicago, from chicago back to los angeles on the airplane i first read pearl buck's the good earth. i broke down and sobbed on the airplane because i'd never seen any author can including my favorite chinese authors, portrayed chinese peasants with such affection, and the accuracy.

it's a life. i think she's the only one. i know she had a debate with a chinese professor in "new york times" after she got the nobel prize. and the debate was, he was saying why can pearl buck portray chinese, the fibers and, the best of chinese, why would she choose the other side? and pearl buck said i'm so glad you pointed out. i happen to be interested in the 95% of the chinese population. so i'm having the same thing. chinese people tell me, who are you? are you mao's daughter? you are not mao started to write anymore. you are so plain. you are so average. so i gave them pro-bucks and to. i happened to be average, 95% of the population. thank you. [applause] >> and we are out of time.

i really enjoyed this book. we are really out of time. >> i have a question. i mean, i'm chinese, and i come here about 15 years. and just, i was working for a newspaper before, and then just two years ago i changed another job working for american company. just two days ago my an american coworker bought this book for me because he wanted to try to encourage me for english. and i'm really honored to be here. so my question, my english still struggling for me, and how did you practice english? want to make you more encouragement to learn english? >> survived. you have to be desperate. >> okay. >> you will. you are already in america.

and let me tell you, english is much more easier than chinese. [laughter] >> thank you. because i working before 12 years all the chinese -- i working for the chinese newspaper as a reporter, to. >> i think the most difficult for you to be tried to stay away from the chinese community. that's what i deny myself for so many years. because i know if i didn't speak english i would never be independent in america. >> that's what i want to thank you so much. i'm really proud of you. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. >> this is a great chicago story. a great immigrant story. thank you, thank you, so much. >> we would like to hear from you. tweet us your feedback, twitter.com/booktv. >> you've been watching booktv, 48 hours about

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